5/12/06 - Mike O'Kelly questions Brendan Dassey without attorney present


Transcript of May 12, 2006 Meeting Between Michael O'Kelly and Brendan Dassey
BD: They were trying to do my bail today.
MOK: What do you understand is going to happen with your bail?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Give me an idea what you think.
BD: That they might raise it or something.
MOK: Might what?
BD: Raise the price.
MOK: That's a possibility. Let's do this here that I've laid out for you. This is your polygraph. Can you read up here?
BO: [Shakes head no.]
MOK: You can't see that far? Can you see what color it is?
BD: Red.
MOK: Okay. Well, I'll read it for you. It says deception indicated. Probability of deception is point 98. That's 98%.
BD: So, what does that mean?
MOK: What do you think that means?
BD: That I passed it?
MOK: It says deception indicated.
BD: That I failed it.
MOK: Yes. That doesn't surprise you. Let me show you some things. This is the original poster for Teresa Halbach. Okay. This is Teresa's website; this is her family. You see them in court right? OK. This is the last thing that Teresa saw. She saw this sign right here. Do you recognize this sign? What does this sign say?
BD: Dead end.
MOK: OK. It's pretty prophetic, isn't it?
BD: [nods]
MOK: And this right here, what is that picture right there?
BD: Our driveway.
MOK: Where is it going to?
BD: My mom's house, Steve's house.
MOK: OK, Teresa sees this sign right here that says dead end and she goes down that road, right, and she ends up here at this red house, right? Whose red house is that?
BD: Steven's.
MOK: OK, she ends up in the bedroom. Top picture -like that? Before there, she has to go down the hallway, right? [showing pictures] Okay. Do you recognize this? It's inside Steven's. Can you think where that might be in his house?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: OK. Do you recognize this right here?
BO: [inaudible]
MOK: OK, what do you think it is?
BO: The stuff that they found on the ... [inaudible]
MOK: Whose car is that?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Whose do you think it is? I
BD: Teresa's.
MOK: Why do you think it's hers?
BD: They said that it was a Toyota, and on the back it says Toyota.
MOK: Recognize this photograph here?
BD: I seen it on TV.
MOK: OK. Maybe looks something like this here? You know what building that is right there? That's Teresa's church. [pause) Now let me tell you this. I know everything I need to know at this stage except for two things. There are two things I don't know. What do you think they might be?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Think about it. [long pause J You have to put your hands down. I can't hear you.
BD: Maybe ifl helped him.
MOK: Continue.
BD: If I helped him with any of this.
MOK: Continue.
BD: [inaudible]
MOK: The two things I don't know is, are you sorry for what you did and will you promise not to do it again. Those are the two things I don't know. I know everything else that I need to about this case except for those two things. What I want you to do is make a decision. I want you to read this form, and then we're going to fill it out. You mark the boxes where you think the boxes should be marked.
BD: [reads form silently]
MOK: Are you sorry?
BD: I don't know, because I didn't do anything
MOK: Brendan, look at me. If you're not sorry, I can't help you. What I don't want you to do is spend the rest of your life in prison. Can you look at me? Do you want to spend the rest of your life in prison? You did a very bad thing.
BD: Yeah, but I was only there for the fire though.
MOK: Brendan, you haven't told me the truth yet. Listen to me carefully. Why don't you look at me? Brendan? Brendan, look at me please. This is your choice. Listen very carefully. Somebody is going to cooperate and tell the truth. I'd prefer it's going to be you. If it's not, because your confession has been admitted, you heard that today. Right now they're asking for life plus seventy-two years. That's your greatest exposure right now. If you tell the complete truth, the complete truth, not just part of the truth, there's a door open for you. You will still have to serve some time in prison; you don't get to go home now. Somebody died. But this is your chance to tell the truth. If Steve Avery decides to get up and lie and testifies against you, then he may get an offer and a deal with the prosecutor's office and that's my concern. Right now, only the two of you know what happened inside that crime scene. You know what happened, you know why it happened, you know what time it happened. But like I said, I don't know if you're sorry, I don't know if you're going to do this again. Those are the two things I don't know. Steve right now is saying that you're to blame for part of this and so is Bobby. Are you aware of that?
BD: [shakes head no J
MOK: ls Bobby to blame for any of this?
BD: No.
MOK: Did he see the girl?
BD: He seen her when he left to go bow hunting.
MOK: OK. Steve says that she and Bobby were together. Is that the truth?
BD: No.
MOK: How do you know it's not the truth?
BD: Because I'm friends with, ah, the guy, the friend's brother, and they said that they go hunting together.
MOK: Remember how you told Detective Wiegert-his name is Mark, right? He's a pretty good guy, right?
BD: l don't !mow.
MOK: He was nice to you?
BD: [shrugs]
MOK: Do you remember telling Mark about a bullet? Remember that?
BD: l never seen the gun that day.
MOK: Well, guess what? What you described to Mark and to Special Agent Fassbender turned out to be completely true, because the DNA is from Teresa that's on one of the bullets that's in the garage on the floor. [shows picture] That's the bullet. [long pause; eventually BD starts writing on form] What'd you decide to do?
BD: Check I am very sorry for what I did.
MOK: That's a good beginning. Continue.
BD: [writes]
MOK: Brendan, stop for a second. The last time you and I were here, what you wrote was not the truth. Do we agree with that?
BD: [long pause] Maybe some of it.
MOK: Part of the truth was that you got up that day and went to school, so yes there was some truth. But everything else you said wasn't the truth. And what I don't want you to do now -can you look at me for a second? What I don't want you to do right now is tell me any more lies. If you lie to me, guess what I have to do? I have to stand up, put everything away, and leave. Because that means that you're going to go to prison for the rest of your life. If you want to go to prison for the rest of your life because you're going to hang onto some lies, then I can't help you. When you're all through telling the truth tonight, then you and I can have to talk about something else. Will you help me with that is? It's a good thing. You get to tell me all about your family history and what got you to this point last October 31 that caused all these problems to happen. I have to unravel all of that and ask the court to consider leniency based upon your family history and what's happened to you. I can only do all these things if you tell the truth. If you say even one single lie, I cannot help you at all. You've got to make a decision before you start writing anything, you're going to write the complete truth, no matter what the truth is, because then Mike can help you. If you write a lie, then Mike can't help you at all. First question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to spend the rest of your life in prison? [inaudible from BD] So is that a yes or a no? I can't hear you.
BD: No.
MOK: Want me to try and help you? [long pause] I specialize in working with folks like yourself. To make sure that you don't go to prison for the rest of your life. Do you want to get out and have a family some day? That means you have to cooperate with me and 3 have me work with you. And how much you cooperate, how much you help me, will depend on what happens with you.
BD: [writes]
MOK: Need more room? Need more paper?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: Is there anything missing from this statement here?
BD: No.
MOK: Is Teresa in that statement?
BD: No.
MOK: Then it's missing. Then it's not a truthful statement. [long silence] I want you to read this right here. Out loud.
BD: I am very sorry for what I did.
MOK: Okay. What does it say down here?
BD: I promise I will never do this again.
MOK: Are those the truth?
BD: [long silence]
MOK: Are you really sorry? That's a question. [long pause] If you're not sorry for what you did, I can understand that too. I just need to know which one it is. [pause] If you are sorry, that's one kind of person. If you're not sorry, that's a different kind of person. And of course I can't help the people who aren't sorry. So are you sorry? ls that a yes or no?
BD: Don't know.
MOK: You don't know if you're sorry or not? [long silence] Would you do this again?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: Why not?
BD: [shrugs] I didn't do nothing.
MOK: That's not true.
BD: I was only there for the fire.
MOK: I wish that was true.
BD: It is.
MOK: You were also in the mobile home.
BD: Not that day, though.
MOK: And you were in the garage.
BD: Only for a little bit, though.
MOK: That's because she was in the garage too.
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: Brendan, I want you to understand something. Want you to look at me. So I know you can hear me. [grabs Brendan's arm] Come on, look at me.
BD: The only thing that was in the garage was a lawmnower and a, ah, snowmobile.
MOK: Brendan, you have the details. You gave the details to the police department.
BD: Yeah. They were false.
MOK: Well, they turned out to be true.
BD: It's 'cause I had too much stuff on my mind. That's why I agreed that whatever they said.
MOK: Well you gave them details.
BD: Yeah, but they told me that they knew it all what had happened already. 4
MOK: And you gave them information that they didn't already have.
BD: That's 'cause I was guessing.
MOK: Well you guessed pretty accurately about a whole bunch of details. And you couldn't guess with all those details. That's why the bleach is on your pants. That's why the bullet has Teresa's DNA. Right here in the garage. This is what you can do. You can try and help yourself; you can do what's right; and I'll help you through this process and you will not be doing life in prison. [long pause] And just so you know, just so you're perfectly clear, I want you to testify against Steven Avery and tell the truth. And this is how I can help you. If you decide not to, I want you to understand that your confession is coming in. When your confession is in, no matter what it is, truth or not truth or anything else, when your confession is in, there's nothing I can do to help you then. So right now we're at the stage that I can help you. But I can't help you with those words that you wrote down. Those words, I can't help you at all. [long pause] If you want to stay in prison the rest of your life, then let's just take those words and say that's it. Is that what you want to do -prison for the rest of your life?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: Well, now's the chance to help yourself. But you can't help yourself with those words. You and I both know that that is not the truth. It's missing information.
BD: [writes]
MOK: Finished?
BD: [writes] END OF DVDl BEGIN DVD2 [BD writing]
BD: What'd happen if that's the only four pictures that I can draw?
MOK: OK. What's this right here?
BD: Where he's got the gun.
MOK: He's shooting her there? And where is he stabbing her?
BD: He does it before that.
MOK: Where?
BD: In the garage.
MOK: OK. Why don't you draw another picture over here about him stabbing her? [BD draws] OK. And, now, where did you have sex with her at?
BD: In the house.
MOK: OK. Why don't you draw a picture down here of you having sex with her there? [BD draws] And what do you have right there?
BD: Two people on the bed.
MOK: And what's that-what's next to it?
BD: Steven.
MOK: Was he watching?
BD: [nods]
MOK: OK. And where'd you stab her at? And cut her hair? In the house or in the garage? 5
BD: I cut her hair in the house and stabbed her outside.
MOK: OK. Was she alive when you stabbed her?
BD: No.
MOK: Why'd you stab her then?
BD: Steve told me to.
MOK: Where did she actually die at?
BD: In the garage.
MOK: So she was alive in the garage when you took her out there?
BD: [nods]
MOK: Was she screaming?
BD: Yeah.
MOK: What was she saying?
BD: [long silence] Like not to do what Steve tells me to do.
MOK: What were her exact words?
BD: Don't listen to him.
MOK: OK. Draw a picture down here of you cutting her hair. [BD draws] And where's this at? [BD writes] Is she in the bedroom -I mean, in the bed, or where?
BD: Lying on the bed.
MOK: OK. [BD writes] And how come she didn't get up from-from the bed?
BD: Because she was tied down.
MOK: What was she tied down with?
BD: Like, rope.
MOK: And what else?
BD: Cuffs.
MOK: What kind of cuffs?
BD: Leg cuffs.
MOK: I'm sorry?
BD: Leg cuffs.
MOK: I don't know what you mean.
BD: Like the ones that they put on their legs.
MOK: So they had chains?
BD: [nods]
MOK: OK. OK, why don't you do this -why don't you draw a picture of the bed and how she was tied down? But draw --draw a big size so we can see it.
BD: [draws] So how should I draw the chains?
MOK: I don't know -I didn't see it so I can't help you.
BD: So, circles?
MOK: OK. [BD draws] What about her hands -are they chained also?
BD: [inaudible]
MOK: What do you think was there?
BD: Rope.
MOK: OK, go ahead and put the rope then.
BD: [draws]
MOK: Was she wearing clothes at this time?
BD: No.
MOK: Where were her clothes at? 6
BD: On the floor.
MOK: Can you put them where they were?
BD: [draws] Should I draw like at-shirt in there?
MOK: Whatever you want to do.
BD: [draws]
MOK: And what is that?
BD: Pants and a shirt.
MOK: OK. What about shoes?
BD: [draws shoes]
MOK: OK. Anything else?
BD: No.
MOK: OK. Is this the bed that she was tied to? [ shows BD photograph of headboard] Where did the rope go to? Can you show me here?
BD: Right here [points to photograph of headboard].
MOK: OK, why don't you put an X right there then. [BD draws X on photograph] And what about the other side? [BD draws X on photograph] OK. What was she sayin' when she was tied up like this?
BD: Telling Steven to let her go.
MOK: And what did Steven say?
BD: That he wasn't gonna.
MOK: What did he tell her?
BD: That he wouldn't let her go cause she was gonna go to the police.
MOK: What else did he say?
BD: [inaudible]
MOK: How long was he planning this?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: What's your idea?
BD: [long silence] I could have a reason why he could have did it.
MOK: Go ahead.
BD: That I think he wanted to do it because like maybe he wanted to go back to jail.
MOK: Why do you think that?
BD: Because some days he couldn't control his temper, so the whole family told him to go see the people that you go talk to about your feelings and that. And he, he got pissed off and he went for a ride.
MOK: What time did you go to the trailer that day? The real time.
BD: 8
MOK: So you were cutting her hair and having sex with her after 8 So she was alive until then? How did you know she was in the trailer?
BD: He told me to follow him to help.
MOK: And what happened next?
BD: He showed me her and then told me to have sex with her.
MOK: Continue.
BD: And I looked at him and then I was thinking of going home but then I seen that he --I thought he was too strong for me, so I did it.
MOK: Continue.
BD: Then after I was done I cut off her-he told me to cut some hair off and then when we were done we took her off and we brung her outside into the garage and then he stabbed her and then shot her.
MOK: How did she get from the bed to the garage?
BD: He carried her.
MOK: How?
BD: In his hands.
MOK: Describe it.
BD: [long silence] Like he had her in his hands, like ... her legs were right here and her back was right there.
MOK: OK.
BD: And when he had his hands like this, he had the gun in his hands.
MOK: And where'd he get the gun from?
BD: In the bedroom.
MOK: What kind of a gun was it?
BD: Twenty-two.
MOK: OK. And what was she saying while this was happening?
BD: Saying not to do it and to let her go.
MOK: And how come she didn't run away?
BD: She was trying to.
MOK: What was she doing?
BD: Like, squirming, trying to get away from him.
MOK: What stopped her from getting away?
BD: He was holding her too tight.
MOK: And what else?
BD: She was tied up.
MOK: How was she tied up?
BD: Her feet were tied and her hands.
MOK: Why don't you draw a picture right here of how she was tied up.
BD: [draws]
MOK: OK. Was she wearing any clothes?
BD: No.
MOK: What happens next?
BD: He stabbed her and then he shoots her and then we put her into the fire.
MOK: And she was still alive when you put her in the fire?
BD: No.
MOK: How do you know?
BD: She wasn't moving.
MOK: When did she stop moving?
BD: When he shot her.
MOK: Where did he shoot her at?
BD: In the stomach.
MOK: And where else?
BD: In the heart.
MOK: In where?
BD: In the heart.
MOK: The heart? And how do you know he shot her in the heart?
BD: I don't know, just guessing because I wasn't even looking.
MOK: Did you see him shoot her?
BD: No, because I can't look at that stuff.
MOK: How do you know he shot her then?
BD: Because I heard the gunshot.
MOK: Maybe he was shooting at you. [pause] What was she saying while he was shooting her?
BD: To stop.
MOK: What did she sound like exactly?
BD: [long silence] She was crying and saying to stop what he was doing.
MOK: Was there blood in the garage?
BD: Yeah.
MOK: Whose blood was it?
BD: Hers.
MOK: And how do you know it was her blood?
BD: Because when I cleaned it up, that's where the spot that he shot her was.
MOK: How many times do you think he shot her?
BD: Five times.
MOK: And why do you think five?
BD: That's how much shots I heard.
MOK: Was the fire already going in the -in the pit?
BD: You mean behind the garage?
MOK: Yes.
BD: Yeah.
MOK: Was it a small fire?
BD: Not really.
MOK: How did she get in the fire?
BD: He carried her.
MOK: And where's the knife that he used to stab her?
BD: I don't know what he did with it.
MOK: Where'd you last see it?
BD: In the garage.
MOK: Where in the garage?
BD: Right behind the lawnmower.
MOK: Behind the lawnmower? Was it hidden?
BD: No, it was just laying on the floor.
MOK: Describe the knife to me. Let's draw a picture of the knife, how's that? [hands paper to BD]
BD: Howbig?
MOK: The bigger the better so you can have details.
BD: [draws] I don't know how to draw the details.
MOK: Just draw it how you think it should be.
BD: Somethin' like that.
MOK: And describe these parts, what they look like.
BD: Like the color and that? 9
MOK: Everything. Sure.
BD: [draws/writes]
MOK: And how long is it?
BD: [draws/writes]
MOK: Is the whole thing eight inches?
BD: [nods]
MOK: And where'd it come from?
BD: In the house.
MOK: Where in the house?
BD: In the kitchen.
MOK: Did you see it?
BD: No.
MOK: How do you know it came from the kitchen?
BD: She was still tied up on the bed, he went in the kitchen and got it.
MOK: OK. Go ahead and put from the kitchen in.
BD: [writes]
MOK: Where's the first place that she was stabbed at?
BD: In the garage.
MOK: OK. When did you know he was going to kill her?
BD: [long pause] I don't know.
MOK: When did he tell you he was going to burn her?
BD: That night.
MOK: Did she know that he was going to burn her?
BD: What do you mean?
MOK: Did he tell her? Did she hear him say that he was going to burn her?
BD: No.
MOK: How many times did he have sex with her?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: What did he tell you about him having sex with her?
BD: He didn't tell me nothing.
MOK: And did he have sex with her then?
BD: [inaudible] I don't know where though
MOK: Did he use any, any sex toys on her?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Do you know what a sex toy is?
BD: No.
MOK: It's something that you put in the girl's vagina. And it vibrates sometimes. Was that used on her that day?
BD: Not that I know of.
MOK: Was anything used on her at all?
BD: No.
MOK: OK. Did you see him touch her at all?
BD: Just to pick her up off the bed and that. MOK When she was in the garage, where was her car?
BD: I don't know, I never seen it.
MOK: It wasn't in the garage?
BD: No.
MOK: What was in the garage besides Teresa, Steve, and you?
BD: Just the snowmobile and the lawnmower.
MOK: The snowmobile -was it, was the snowmobile on the trailer?
BD: No.
MOK: OK, and the lawnmower -is it a riding lawnmower?
BD: Mm-hmm.
MOK: Let's do this. [hands paper to Brendan] I want you to draw a picture of the garage, where you were, where Teresa was, where Steve was, and where the lawnmower and the snowmobile was. Please.
BD: Should I just draw a square?
MOK: Sure. But draw a big picture so we can see.
BD: Yeah, I mean for the lawnmower.
MOK: OK, sure.
BD: [draws] Should I say that this door was open?
MOK: Whatever the truth is.
BD: [inaudible]
MOK: That's you? OK. The door's open?
BD: [nods]
MOK: Everybody can see you? [MOK's cell phone or pager beeps; he gets up and goes off camera, returns on camera and changes tapes in audio cassette player that is on table] So the garage door is open? How about this door right here, is that open?
BD: Just a little bit.
MOK: OK. And what's happening over here?
BD: That's where he set her on the floor and then stabbed her and shot her.
MOK: OK. And you stabbed her over there too?
BD: [nods]
MOK: How many times?
BD: Once.
MOK: Where at?
BD: In the stomach.
MOK: And where did he stab her at?
BD: In the stomach.
MOK: You think she was in a lot of pain?
BD: Yeah.
MOK: Why do you think she was in a lot of pain?
BD: She was telling him that it hurts.
MOK: What was she saying?
BD: She was crying.
MOK: How much?
BD: A lot.
MOK: What do you call a lot?
BD: Her tears were always running down her, one after another.
MOK: How long was she crying?
BD: Until he shot her.
MOK: Continue.
BD: Then after that he took her outside and put her on the fire.
MOK: Continue.
BD: Then we were just standing, like, probably 15 feet away from the fire and, and, my mom came home. She went in the house and called Steven on her cell phone and told him that I would have to be home at ten o'clock. And she asked ifl had a sweater on.
MOK: Continue.
BD: That was at nine o'clock about. And so we waited for a little bit and then the fire went down and so actually we threw some stuff on there and we waited for the fire to go down. When it did, it was about like ten o'clock so Steve told me that I should go home and go to bed. So I did and I, when I got home I talked to my mom a little bit, like how her day was and that. And I went to sleep.
MOK: Did you sleep pretty good that night.
BD: Not really.
MOK: Explain.
BD: Well, I only got 3 hours of sleep. And at school I was, I was in my third hour class and then like in the middle of third hour everybody was laughing because my head was like bobbin', bobbing down like -I don't !mow how to explain it, where your head goes like bobbing.
MOK: What was Steve saying while she was in the fire burning?
BD: Not much.
MOK: What were his words?
BD: That I should keep my mouth shut.
MOK: Continue.
BD: That's it.
MOK: OK. Where was the Suzuki at while this was happening?
BD: The gray Suzuki?
MOK: Yes.
BD: On the side of the garage, like right here.
MOK: OK. How did he get her car down to -down to the pit?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: I heard that Chuck and Earl knew it was down there.
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Did you hear anything like that?
BD: No.
MOK: Let me show you -do you know where the car was found?
BD: I seen a picture.
MOK: Why don't you walk over here, I'll show you.
BD: [gets out of seat, moves off camera]
MOK: [off camera] You see right there? The car was in the middle of the road facing that direction. This is the car. This is his house. How'd he get it over there? Did you see the car any place there at all? You never did?
BD: But l know there's a back road that goes [partially inaudible]
MOK: Show me how.
BD: [inaudible]
MOK: And then how?
BD: [inaudible]
MOK: OK. And drive back here? OK. [MOK and BD return to seats on camera] Let's do this. I want you to take the red pen and this is the garage. [pointing to BD's drawing] OK, put the word garage there so you know it's the garage. Okay, at what time is she over here?
BD: Should I write it down?
MOK: Oh yes please.
BD: [writes]
MOK: And then put the name of the person here and the name of each one of these people here, please.
BD: How do you spell Teresa?
MOK: However you think it should be spelled.
BD: [writes/draws]
MOK: OK, good. And then this was the lmife that was used to stab her?
BD: [nods]
MOK: Go ahead and write that then so we know what it is.
BD: [writes]
MOK: And put her name there.
BD: [writes]
MOK: Okay, and then describe what these things are please.
BD: [writes]
MOK: OK, what does that say?
BD: Bed where Teresa was roped and chained.
MOK: OK. And who's this person here?
BD: Teresa.
MOK: Go ahead and put -write what everything is, please.
BD: [writes]
MOK: OK, and what's this down here?
BD: [writes]
MOK: And what's happening with her?
BD: [writes]
MOK: And where'd the rope come from?
BD: The rope that he used right there?
MOK: Yes, where'd this rope come from?
BD: In the garage.
MOK: Okay, can you describe the rope? You can start with what color it is.
BD: Yellowish.
MOK: OK, go ahead and write it down here. [BD writes] And how do you know it came from the garage?
BD: Because he had quite a few ropes in the garage that I see sometimes when I go over there.
MOK: And describe what these things over here are, please.
BD: [writes]
MOK: And whose are these?
BD: [writes]
MOK: Okay. Teresa's clothes?
BD: [writes] 13
MOK: And what happened to them?
BD: They ended up in the fire.
MOK: And how do you know that?
BD: Because that's what we used to clean up the reddish-black stuff.
MOK: Explain.
BD: Like he would throw that, the bleach in there on the spots where the blood was and we'd use the clothes to try to get it cleaned up.
MOK: Whose clothes were they using?
BD: Hers.
MOK: OK. How do you know it was her clothes?
BD: He told me to grab them.
MOK: And did you?
BD: [nods]
MOK: And where'd you get them from?
BD: From right there on the floor.
MOK: Where was he when he told you to grab the clothes?
BD: He was right here getting, grabbing her.
MOK: And what was she doing while he was grabbing her?
BD: Trying to get away.
MOK: How was she trying to get away?
BD: Trying to squirm out of his, his grip.
MOK: Were you holding her also?
BD: No.
MOK: Not even for a minute?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: Why not?
BD: I was grabbing the clothes and the shoes.
MOK: And what was she saying?
BD: To let her go.
MOK: Was she begging for mercy?
BD: Yeah.
MOK: What was she saying?
BD: To please stop to do and ... ! don't know. [inaudible]
MOK: Was she crying there also?
BD: Yeah.
MOK: How much?
BD: Like, a little bit.
MOK: Did she mention God?
BD: Huh?
MOK: Did she ever mention God?
BD: No.
MOK: Before she died? Did she mention anybody's names before she died?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: Do you think she knew she was dying?
BD: Not that I know of.
MOK: OK. And what time is this when you first saw her? 14
BD: [writes]
MOK: Now over here you wrote 8
BD: [inaudible J
MOK: OK. What's the first time that you knew that she was in there?
BD: When I went in there.
MOK: And that's what that time was? What'd you do from 5
BD: Well, when I came home from school I do what I always do, play Playstation 2. And, I played that until 5:00 and I called my friend, to see if, what he was doing that following weekend. And so after that I watched TV and I got a phone call like six from Blaine's boss. And at seven I got a phone call from Steven but I didn't go over there right away. And he called again to see where I was and I told him I was getting ready.
MOK: Okay, why don't you go ahead and put the times for what these things are -what each picture is.
BD: What do you mean, like what time this is?
MOK: Sure, and also what it is.
BD: [writes]
MOK: And put also that Steve was watching you if that's true.
BD: [writes]
MOK: And what was she saying when you were doing that?
BD: Should I write it down here?
MOK: Um, here, why don't you write it-and use this -right there.
BD: [writes]
MOK: OK. Describe where she was while you were doing that -while that was happening.
BD: [writes]
MOK: What did Steve say to you during that week after this happened?
BD: About this?
MOK: Mm-hmm.
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Why didn't you tell anybody?
BD: I was afraid to.
MOK: Afraid of what?
BD: Afraid that the family wouldn't like me any more.
MOK: Which family?
BD: My family.
MOK: And why wouldn't they like you any more?
BD: For listening to Steven.
MOK: What was Steven wearing when you, when you first went into to hurt --in his house?
BD: Shorts.
MOK: What color?
BD: Red.
MOK: What color top?
BD: Gray.
MOK: And what happened to those clothes?
BD: I don't remember. 15
MOK: Did he burn anything else in the, in the pit besides Teresa and her clothes?
BD: Just tires, a cabinet, wood, and a van seat. ENDOFDVD2 START OF DVD 3
MOK: OK, I just asked you what else you think's important that we should know, and what'd you come up with?
BD: Nothing else.
MOK: Well, I thought you were going to start to tell me something.
BD: Huh?
MOK: I thought you were going to start to tell me something.
BD: No, I said I didn't know anything else.
MOK: Oh. [flips through form] Let's see. Here's a page there for you to read please.
BD: Should I do it in blue?
MOK: Yes please. Take your time.
BD: [writes]
MOK: [off camera] Hi, Len? Hi Len, this is Mike O'Kelly. Hi. I'm with Brendan right now, and we're in the G.E.D. room of the facility. Um, and he's given a detailed statement. Um, my next question to you would be that, would you like me to call Special Agent Fassbender and have him interview Brendan at this time? [pause] Oh, quite well. Quite well. Quite well, very well. [pause] Let me get clearance from the jailer.otherwise I can't give him the phone. [pause] Yes, officer, this is Mike O'Kelly. I've got the attorney on my cell phone, and he'd like to talk to Brendan Dassey. Is that possible? OK. Want to walk down [inaudible]? That sounds fine. It's Brendan Dassey's attorney. I'd also pass the phone to you folks to verify. I will. That's fine. [hangs up] OK, they're going to check with their supervisor and then they're gonna walk down. Oh, couldn't believe it. The driver's side tire split at the rim, by 18 inches, so it was about halfway down the tire. $360 for one tire. Couldn't believe it. I'm sorry? Yes, well I have a BMW and all you do is say BMW and they double the price. Yes, they are, yes. Yes [laughing]. I was fortunate -I was able to get the tires on and get down here now. This is a nice jail facility. Oh, sure, definitely. Brendan's doing quite well. Here's somebody now. Officer 1: [opening door] It's fine.
MOK: Do you want to verify it? Officer 1 to verify it. Officer 2: [on phone] Hello, this is Officer Helmer. OK. Thank you. [officers leave]
MOK: Brendan, Len wants to talk to you.
BD: [takes phone] Hello? [very long pause] [inaudible] think about it. OK. OK. OK. [hands phone to Mike]
MOK: [off camera] Hi Len. Does he understand how valuable it can be for him? Ah, no, and that's my concern. At this point in time, we can do so much to save him. That won't do any good, though. That won't do any good, just so you know. Would you mind if I visited with him a little bit more? And explained to him the value? And if there's a 16 change I' 11 call you back, then? That sound fine? Thanks very much. Thanks, Len. Bye.
BD: What do I put for the state?
MOK: What's that?
BD: What do I put for the state?
MOK: What do you mean?
BD: It says, declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the state of.
MOK: What state are you in, do you think?
BD: Wisconsin.
MOK: OK.
BD: What time is it?
MOK: What's that?
BD: What's the time?
MOK: [shows Brendan watch]
BD: 8
MOK: OK. Let's talk for a few minutes
BD: What do I do here, or do I have to do anything?
MOK: No, you don't have to at all.
BD: Just put my name?
MOK: Yes, please. OK, let me explain this to you. You're writing a truthful story, am I correct?
BD: Mmm-hmm.
MOK: You're writing a truthful story to help yourself?
BD: [nods]
MOK: You realize that you're not going to go home by writing the truth, right?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: OK. You realize that what you did was wrong and you're sorry for it, right?
BD: [nods]
MOK: OK. You realize that you're going to have to go to prison for some period of time, right?
BD: [nods]
MOK: OK. I would also like you to testify against Steve Avery.
BD: [long pause]
MOK: That's the right thing to do. Do you agree?
BD: Yeah.
MOK: OK. You've pretty much told me the same story as you told the police, and I'd like you to work with the police and tell them the truth [takes cell out of pocket]. Who's this -it might be Lennie. [ answers phone] Polygraph, can we help you? [hangs up] Not Len. My concern is for you and I'd like you to cooperate with the police department. They want to interview you also, if you'll let them, and if you work with them, I feel comfortable that the Halbach family will also support you for doing the right thing. This is the time in your life that you can tum around and do as much as you can to right as much as you have wronged. You can't bring Teresa back, but you can certainly do the right thing in her memory. Do you agree?
BD: Yes. 17
MOK: And if Teresa were alive right now, she'd want you to testify against Avery. Right?
BD: [nods]
MOK: And she'd want you to tell the truth to the police department. And would you like me to be there when you talk to the police?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: I'm more than willing to be with you when you tell the police the story.
BD: When am I going to be doing this?
MOK: They might want to come over tonight, if you'll let them.
BD: I don't know. But I wanted to watch a show today though.
MOK: This is pretty important for Teresa.
BD: Ifl don't pick today, when will they come up here?
MOK: I don't know. How would you feel ifwe came over in the morning?
BD: [shrugs]
MOK: Would that be OK with you? After you had breakfast?
BD: How long will it take though?
MOK: I don't know. About as long as you and I took, because now that you got the truth out, now it's easy.
BD: Tomorrow would be OK.
MOK: OK. Let me call Len and tell him. Would you like Len to be here too?
BD: [shrugs] Don't matter to me.
MOK: OK. [dials cell phone] Hi Len, this is Mike. Brendan would like to watch a TV show tonight, he has something that he'd like to see on TV. So he'd like to forego tonight and he said after breakfast tomorrow morning would be fine. Ah, the interview by law enforcement can occur after breakfast tomorrow morning. Yes, I will. OK. Perfect. Of course, yes. You know, I don't know. I'd presume that they would, and I'd presume that they'd like to see what he gave me this evening. 1 think it'd be easier for Brendan to visit with them using this statement here. It'd be easier on Brendan than it would be to start all over again. OK. OK [laughing]. OK. Sounds great, Len. Thank you very much. Take care. Bye. [hangs up, dials another number] Yes, this is Michael O'Kelly calling for Special Agent Fassbender. Hi there. Hi there. I'm inside the Sheboygan County jail facility, and I'm sitting here with Brendan, and we've had several conversations with the attorney, and Brendan would like to visit with you folks. He'd like to watch a movie tonight, so he said you can come by tomorrow morning after breakfast. And he's also prepared a document for me, and it'll be up to you if you want to copy it or not. Len mentioned that - discovery issues and let you make that decision. Let you make that decision if you want it or not. OK. And this is what he suggested. He suggested you send him an e-mail and he'll confirm everything in writing for you. That way you'll have the authorization in writing. OK, I'll call him right back now. I understand, I understand. That sounds fine. Take care. Bye. [ dials cell phone] Hi Len, this is Mike again. Would you call Special Agent Fassbender at his cell phone? It's 427.4671. 920. And just let him know-ask him to give me a call if he decides to come over in the morning, and I'll meet him at Sheboygan County facility. All right? Thanks so much. Take care. [hangs up] What else do you think? Who moved the Suzuki down there into the pit? Who moved your mom's van down into the pit?
BD: I didn't even know it was down in the pit. 18
MOK: Yeah, they were both down there.
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Did Teresa ever come near the Suzuki?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: OK. Who else knows that he killed her?
BD: [shrugs) I don't know.
MOK: Your grandmother?
BD: [shakes head no]
MOK: What does she think?
BD: That he didn't do it.
MOK: And Earl and Chuck, what do they think?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Does Blaine know what you did?
BD: Not right away, before -after the first interview.
MOK: How much did you tell him?
BD: Before the interview?
MOK: Sofar.
BD: Well, when we went to Fox Hills after the first interview, we were telling him why he had to come up to Fox Hills and that. That's pretty much it.
MOK: Is that in November?
BD: No, it was February.
MOK: So you didn't tell Blaine until February? Did you tell him you had sex with her too?
BD: No.
MOK: What'd you tell him?
BD: I just told him that I was by the fire.
MOK: With the body in the fire.
BD: Well, I didn't tell him that her body was in there.
MOK: He knows that you were there when she died, right?
BD: I think he knows.
MOK: Why do you think that?
BD: I think he knows because he's all hearing it on TV and from family members.
MOK: Did you also tell them things?
BD: What do you mean?
MOK: Did you tell him things about Teresa that day?
BD: No.
MOK: Who else did you tell besides me?
BD: Noone.
MOK: You haven't told anybody else at all?
BD: [shakes head no) But on May 4 when they questioned my mom, you know, and they asked her if she knew why I was losing weight and depressed, and she said she didn't know, it wasn't because of this.
MOK: What was it?
BD: It was because I was trying to impress my girlfriend. But then when I met her, she broke up with me. So after that I was feeling sad and then two weeks after that I went by my friend's house, and he said that he knew another girl and he'd like to go over. 19 And the Wednesday when they arrested me, that's when -that day I was going to go see her.
MOK: How many times have you thought about committing suicide?
BD: Never.
MOK: What about hanging in the garage? One of your friends told me that you did, that you were thinking about committing suicide. What did you tell them?
BD: [shakes head no] Maybe I was talking to my friend about his future job. Because he wanted to be a suicide bomber.
MOK: And who's that?
BD: Travis.
MOK: And who is he going to suicide bomb?
BD: I don't know. He said that was one of his careers that he wanted to do.
MOK: Was he thinking about suicide bombing the school?
BD: No.
MOK: He's been having some difficulty at school, you know.
BD: Mostly everybody at school has a problem with school.
MOK: Do you feel better right now?
BD: [pause) Alittle.
MOK: Good. You did the right thing. You still have my card?
BD: Mm-hmm.
MOK: OK.
BD: It kind of sucks up here, though, because if I wanted to call my friend and talk to him, I couldn't unless I ordered a phone card. At first I could have, but then after this one day I couldn't. It says it's restricted or something.
MOK: [long silence] What are you going to watch tonight on TV?
BD: I don't know, what time is it now?
MOK: [shows watch)
BD: Well, ifl go right now there's only 15 minutes.
MOK: Ofwhat?
BD: Wrestling.
MOK: What do you think should happen to Steve?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: How come you knew about her plates being taken off her car?
BD: I didn't know about that.
MOK: You didn't? You told the police that.
BD: I didn't know though.
MOK: What do you think should happen to you?
BD: Probably get, like, I don't know. Probably, quite a few years.
MOK: What do you call quite a few years?
BD: Like ten, fifteen.
MOK: What if they gave you 20 years?
BD: I don't know.
MOK: Would that be fair for what you've done?
BD: I guess so.
MOK: It's better than life without parole, isn't it? Do you think you can keep this between you and I and Len right now, and not tell your family at all or your mom or 20 anybody? Keep this real quiet? Anything you want to ask me? You know you can always call me collect, right? [hands ribbon to BD] Take this with you, something of Teresa's.
BD: I don't want it.
MOK: Let's do this -let's go ahead and stop for this evening, unless you have questions you want to ask me, anything you want to say. Then we'll probably come back in the morning and we'll just go from there. Thanks for doing the right thing. You made a good choice. I think you'll feel better too. It'll be hard facing Steve but if you want I'll be there when we face him in court.
BD: [nods]
MOK: And you don't have to worry-he can't get to you, he can't hurt you. [pats Brendan on back] OK? [gets up] Yes, officer, this is Mike O'Kelly. We're ready to come back. OK. Want this also?
BD: No.
MOK: OK. Did you ever see her car like this?
BD: [shakes head no]